I N T E R V I E W : D U S T I N Z A H N
Check out his mix: Droid
How would you describe your music to someone unfamiliar with techno?
I just tell 'em it's drummy, trashy, repetitive beats. It doesn't matter what you tell them anyway because the odds are they still won't know what you're talking about. If they're serious they'll ask to hear some of it.
Who initially provided the greatest inspiration for your music production? Who currently influences your work the most?
Autechre, Aphex Twin, Plastikman, Stewart Walker, Liam Howlett, and other hip hop and DNB producers. I was into that stuff long before I ever heard a "drum" record or anything. My early productions were mostly IDM, minimal, acid house, and some industrial type breaks. My roots don't go as far back or as obscure as a lot of techno artists. I'm young and from the backwoods so there wasn't really anyone there to open my eyes except for maybe Ian on a few things.
Lately, my inspiratoins come from everywhere. The music I listen to, my social life, my preference of art, etc., it all comes into play. On the music front I'm really influenced by anything that is really edgy and raw. All the techno coming out right now is replacing the rough-sounding future sounds composed by ameteurs with those refined crappy house stabs and Latin vocals. These days most techno tracks lean toward the house or trance side of things. There is no experimentalism anymore. It's not longer psychadelic or aggressive. I like the really raw and synthetic records coming out these days.
You're a student, right? What are you studying?
The plan is to become a history teacher. Right now I only have some small classes such as music and foreign languages. Honestly, the music class is killing me. I've been a producer since 1998 and everything I've learned musically and studio-mastering wise has been self-taught. I just wanted to learn which keys go together so I can make some cool synth lines quicker so I took this class. It's called Fundamentals of Music and I'll probably fail it. Now they have me trying to learn sheet music, piano, and shit...that's why I quit high school band. I played baritone and percussion for two years. The teacher found out I was doing it all by ear because I couldn't read the sheet music, so I quit. As for the fundamentals class, I think it's the teacher's fault I'm failing (laughs). I don't know how I can travel the world because of my music yet I can't pass a goddamn entry level music class.
What activities/interests/art outside of techno most strongly inform the way you work? How?
Well, it all goes back to having fun. Life is too short, so I am out to enjoy it as much as possible. If I am having a good time in my surroundings the music will probably flow much easier. If we're talking techno, the biggest influence is probably the way we party. When I make techno it usually reflects how my friends and I like to party. My music is made for getting rowdy, because that's what we do. In a proper party situation, everything should be completely out of hand. (grins) There is also another side of me that is very artistic and marches to the beat of a different drummer. That's usually where my ambient/experimental side comes into play. I try to mix up both of those sides in my techno productions.
So your computer recently died... What was the problem? What did you end up losing (if anything)? What software do you use?
The power supply part on the mother board was fucked. It's a problem that was common with my model and I didn't know about it. It's dangerous because it melts the power chord! The company won't do anything about it. They're called ECS Desknotes and you should never buy their crap. I had to send it to a private company for repair. Luckily I've learned my lesson many times and backed a lot of it up. I have always bought cheap laptops because I always have them in smokey clubs and dodgy warehouses. I decided to say fuck it and bought a nice new one. I'm using FLStudio and Ableton, and some gear.
Tracks life your "1984" (ENEM) and "Cushion" (Livewire) have such a different effect from one like "Hard Off" (INV). In what ways might these tracks be essentially similar, both in form and in production processes? What is it that makes them different, and how would you respond to these tracks differently as a listener?
Actually now that I think about it, it's quite ironic that those were both recorded in one take and they were both last minute additions. Cushion was seriously me just pressing record and fooling around on a synth for a couple minutes. There was no fore-thought or post-production on it, but I thought it sounded cool. 1984 was done in a night. It was like 2 in the morning and I was alone and wanted to make an epic ambient piece. I wanted to make a perfect contrast of dark and light, sounds and melodies. I wanted something in it to be uplifting and euphoric but have a sort of melancholy to it as well. I thought I nailed it pretty dead on. I rendered a working copy and went to bed, intending to lay down some drums the next day. The next day I was an idiot and deleted the project file on accident. I tooked the rendered version, re-eq'd it and thought, "Well, you better like it Zahn 'cause it's finished now!"
As a listener I would just say that "Cushion" has some cool soundscapes. With "1984" I'd say it's quite a euphoric track that is perfect for those moody nights. I am really pleased with "1984" and I think it's still one of my best ambient tunes.
Do you prefer performing solo or with Ian Lehman? What are some of the benefits of either?
I enjoy both. We both have shortcomings that the other takes care of so I think it's rather well-rounded when we play together. In a DJ situation, I'm really not into tagging to be honest. There are a few exceptions where it's a ton of fun but normally I need to constantly be working on the stage to present what I am fully about. Obviously, performing solo and as a group has pros and cons for each. I really enjoy traveling on my own sometimes just to do my own thing, but sometimes it's also really nice to have a friend to tag along. The only bummer about doing the Attack People gigs is that we usually have to split the money in half, which is generally shit anyway so who cares. In the studio, I prefer to work alone. Ian is one of the few people whom I can work with on a serious level because we both come from the same style of production so it's not hard working with him.
Describe some fo the differences between your personal work and your work as "Attack People." What are some of the dynamics of your production with Lehman? Do you take turns producing or trade a track back and forth? Similarly, what is the dynamic in live performance - how do the two of you perform together/work off one another?
My personal work is a bit more in your face and energetic. I focus on rhythms, hooks, and other catchy stuff to carry the track. Ian's all about being scary with haunting pads and textures. His stuff is more linear and machine oriented, whereas my stuff is just rockin' party tracks. The idea behind "The Attack People" is to take the highlights of our styles and combine them together to make something different.
There are some things that Ian can pull off better than I can, and vice versa. It's just fun to sit down, choose a direction and see what happens. We've been striving to find the perfect formula for making tracks together and I think we've found it. Most of the time the track is on the mixing desk, we're both right there at the computer. One of us will kind of man everything and do our own thing while the other takes the back seat and adds suggestions and input here and there. After the idea is accomplished, we switch off and start the process over again. We keep doing that until we finish a track. Sometimes one of us will start a track that we just can't go anywhere with, so we'll make it an A.P. track and see if we can take it somewhere. It's never a one-man show, we're both there during the writing process from the beginning to the end. I think we're finally beginning to find the Attack People sound.
In the live setting we definitely work together. I've spent more time with Ableton so far, so I kinda make sure all the sequencing and settings are correct while Ian handles the mix down, some keyboard work, and now some vocals here and there (in true industrial fashion). Many times we'll rework stuff live or pull of some sort of trick that requires both of us to work together because we're operating different equipment so it's important that we have good communication when playing live.
When the name "Attack People" comes up in different forums and circles, people are excited. To many you were a "must see" at the Friction event during last year's Movement Festival. How does this make you feel, and what do you think makes you stand apart and receive appreciation/recognition?
I think it's incredible. We've come from absolute backwoods to getting respect all over the world. It's something we never expected and never intended. When Ian and I first came up with Abiotic, the idea was just to press up a couple hundred copies on vinyl and be local rave heroes. I started making electronic music out of boredom and because I couldn't find enough of it to listen to, so I had to make my own! We're proud that we've come this far.
One of the things that makes us stand apart is our overall attitude. In general, we just don't give a fuck and want to have a good time. I don't care if I ever do a record for Primate or some other big techno label, and neither does Ian. That's the problem with most upcoming artists these days, they forget to have fun. They put all their focus on putting a record out and that's it. We don't really care if we put out 1 or 10 records a year. Artists need to realize that your attitude, style, and outlook on things really do translate into your music.
Sometimes I feel like certain producers sit in their rooms churning out different versions of the same techno tracks in their own particular style. Do you ever feel like you're repeating yourself, and if so how would you deal with it?
I do and I get frustrated. I am always looking for new software or sample sources. Last year in the fall I went through like, a 7 month writers block. I can make the cookie cutter drum tracks with ease but that's not what I am here for. I just started using Ableton a little bit more for studio work to try and get some different software influence in my productions. I'm always trying new things to keep production interesting. When you fall into a formula it's real hard to enjoy making music.
Sometimes I sit down and come up with a beat and think, "How many times have I gone through this process?" and I end up scrapping a lot of tracks. Whenever you get a hot new producer everybody buys his first 6 or 7 records because they're bad ass and fresh. After that it all sounds the same. They're afraid to take other influences and incorporate it into their sound. I don't know if it's because of sales or laziness or what. Nowadays, I'm not interested in churning out a record a week. I'll put something out when I've got something to say. Sometimes I just include filler tracks because I think they're cool and still deserve to be heard. I'm a fan of the old school b-sides mentality.
What are some music/career goals you've accomplished? What are some goals that you're trying to accomplish?
I never had any musical goals. We started off as DJs/musicians looking for something to do on the weekend and now it's become so much more than that. I think that's an accomplishment. I don't have any other goals to be honest. If I had to quit tomorrow I'd be happy with how far I've come. I think the thing I am most proud of is that I taught myself everything I know about this industry. How to make tracks, how to master them, and how to sell them...that's pretty cool. Looking towards the future, I just hope I get the opportunity to bring some friends with me to some cool places to experience the world a bit more. That's it.
Talk a bit about Abiotic.....what's its mission, primary activity, etc?
It's simply just the flagship label for Ian and me. We haven't set any criteria or concepts for the label because that's the first step in putting limitations on what we could put out. I can tell you that after Abiotic003 the sound will change slightly. The clubbier stuff will be on my Enemy label and Abiotic will be reserved for the more forward-thinking productions. Abiotic is one of the few labels out there that really isn't here to put out some chart toppers. We're also not here to sell 20,000 copies either (I wouldn't be upset about it though). Now, it's not what my distributors want to hear but it's the truth. Here's the scenario we're trying to nail: You go out to a party and hear your friends or a DJ playing this crazy track that is just real obscure but it's one of the coolest things you've heard all night. You know you'll probably never find out what the track is so you enjoy it for all it's worth. And that's it, it's fucking gone and you can't get that moment back. I know that's why I am here. I love going out to the parties in the woods or wherever with my friends and having them play obscure tracks that you've never heard and will probably never hear again.
Online you've talked about how important it is for local techno promoters to work together. What are some of the accomplishments of collaboration that you've seen? Give an example of a scene or situation hurt by a lack of cooperation?
Well, some of the most recent collaborations I've seen are events Abiotic have been lucky enough to be a part of. The Substance party in Detroit was a project between the Detroit and NYC crews. It was a huge success and an extremely fun night. Those same guys just did the same for the Downwards US tour that we were a part of. I've been working with some promoters here in Minneapolis on a few small things and those have been huge successes as well. Those aforementioned parties were all done for the music and not for the money or spotlight, so they had a much better vibe. The U.S. in general is a perfect example of lack of cooperation. Fortunately it's starting to change...slowly.
If you want me to get technical about it, I think Chicago is probably the most divided city I've been to lately. There are a lot of politics, and egos there. Don't get me wrong, every time I go to Chicago I have a ton of fun and there are a lot of people there that are some of the coolest people I've ever met. But, just talking to various techno heads there, they always have beef with this guy or that guy. I've also never seen a city so divided on musical differences. Around here, we combine minimal, house, hard techno, all of that into one party. I see all those subgenres divided into different parties there. And not just parties either, but people actually have broken off friendships because of those small differences! From an outsider's view it seems like a lot of drama and little mention of family.
What is the purpose of continuing the techno tradition? What makes techno music still worthwhile, particularly in a live context?
I've said it frequently throughout this interview; it's all about enjoying yourself and having fun. If you can't do that then there isn't a purpose. There is a lot of cannon fodder coming out these days, but there are a few times a year when I hear a DJ play, sometimes an international guy or a close friend, who will simply blow my mind in a live setting with some crazy records or mixing skills I've never experienced. Being out at a party with your friends hearing great music, sharing great stories, and having a laugh is what still makes techno worthwhile. For me, and I know for many of my friends, it's about more than just a 5 minute cut on a record...it's about fully experiencing and appreciating what life has to offer in the little time we have a chance to experience it. You only get one chance at life, so let your guard down and enjoy it for all it's worth.
List 5 releases (techno or other, new or old, whatever) for listening.
All-time charts are the hardest questions to answer and my top 10's are all over the net, so I'll just list off what I have in my car at the moment:
The Hives - New Album
RJD2 - Since we Last Spoke
Go Hiyama - live pa
Wu Tang - 36 Chambers
Journey - Greatest Hits
interview by bijan for droid (october 22, 2004)
How would you describe your music to someone unfamiliar with techno?
I just tell 'em it's drummy, trashy, repetitive beats. It doesn't matter what you tell them anyway because the odds are they still won't know what you're talking about. If they're serious they'll ask to hear some of it.
Who initially provided the greatest inspiration for your music production? Who currently influences your work the most?
Autechre, Aphex Twin, Plastikman, Stewart Walker, Liam Howlett, and other hip hop and DNB producers. I was into that stuff long before I ever heard a "drum" record or anything. My early productions were mostly IDM, minimal, acid house, and some industrial type breaks. My roots don't go as far back or as obscure as a lot of techno artists. I'm young and from the backwoods so there wasn't really anyone there to open my eyes except for maybe Ian on a few things.
Lately, my inspiratoins come from everywhere. The music I listen to, my social life, my preference of art, etc., it all comes into play. On the music front I'm really influenced by anything that is really edgy and raw. All the techno coming out right now is replacing the rough-sounding future sounds composed by ameteurs with those refined crappy house stabs and Latin vocals. These days most techno tracks lean toward the house or trance side of things. There is no experimentalism anymore. It's not longer psychadelic or aggressive. I like the really raw and synthetic records coming out these days.
You're a student, right? What are you studying?
The plan is to become a history teacher. Right now I only have some small classes such as music and foreign languages. Honestly, the music class is killing me. I've been a producer since 1998 and everything I've learned musically and studio-mastering wise has been self-taught. I just wanted to learn which keys go together so I can make some cool synth lines quicker so I took this class. It's called Fundamentals of Music and I'll probably fail it. Now they have me trying to learn sheet music, piano, and shit...that's why I quit high school band. I played baritone and percussion for two years. The teacher found out I was doing it all by ear because I couldn't read the sheet music, so I quit. As for the fundamentals class, I think it's the teacher's fault I'm failing (laughs). I don't know how I can travel the world because of my music yet I can't pass a goddamn entry level music class.
What activities/interests/art outside of techno most strongly inform the way you work? How?
Well, it all goes back to having fun. Life is too short, so I am out to enjoy it as much as possible. If I am having a good time in my surroundings the music will probably flow much easier. If we're talking techno, the biggest influence is probably the way we party. When I make techno it usually reflects how my friends and I like to party. My music is made for getting rowdy, because that's what we do. In a proper party situation, everything should be completely out of hand. (grins) There is also another side of me that is very artistic and marches to the beat of a different drummer. That's usually where my ambient/experimental side comes into play. I try to mix up both of those sides in my techno productions.
So your computer recently died... What was the problem? What did you end up losing (if anything)? What software do you use?
The power supply part on the mother board was fucked. It's a problem that was common with my model and I didn't know about it. It's dangerous because it melts the power chord! The company won't do anything about it. They're called ECS Desknotes and you should never buy their crap. I had to send it to a private company for repair. Luckily I've learned my lesson many times and backed a lot of it up. I have always bought cheap laptops because I always have them in smokey clubs and dodgy warehouses. I decided to say fuck it and bought a nice new one. I'm using FLStudio and Ableton, and some gear.
Tracks life your "1984" (ENEM) and "Cushion" (Livewire) have such a different effect from one like "Hard Off" (INV). In what ways might these tracks be essentially similar, both in form and in production processes? What is it that makes them different, and how would you respond to these tracks differently as a listener?
Actually now that I think about it, it's quite ironic that those were both recorded in one take and they were both last minute additions. Cushion was seriously me just pressing record and fooling around on a synth for a couple minutes. There was no fore-thought or post-production on it, but I thought it sounded cool. 1984 was done in a night. It was like 2 in the morning and I was alone and wanted to make an epic ambient piece. I wanted to make a perfect contrast of dark and light, sounds and melodies. I wanted something in it to be uplifting and euphoric but have a sort of melancholy to it as well. I thought I nailed it pretty dead on. I rendered a working copy and went to bed, intending to lay down some drums the next day. The next day I was an idiot and deleted the project file on accident. I tooked the rendered version, re-eq'd it and thought, "Well, you better like it Zahn 'cause it's finished now!"
As a listener I would just say that "Cushion" has some cool soundscapes. With "1984" I'd say it's quite a euphoric track that is perfect for those moody nights. I am really pleased with "1984" and I think it's still one of my best ambient tunes.
Do you prefer performing solo or with Ian Lehman? What are some of the benefits of either?
I enjoy both. We both have shortcomings that the other takes care of so I think it's rather well-rounded when we play together. In a DJ situation, I'm really not into tagging to be honest. There are a few exceptions where it's a ton of fun but normally I need to constantly be working on the stage to present what I am fully about. Obviously, performing solo and as a group has pros and cons for each. I really enjoy traveling on my own sometimes just to do my own thing, but sometimes it's also really nice to have a friend to tag along. The only bummer about doing the Attack People gigs is that we usually have to split the money in half, which is generally shit anyway so who cares. In the studio, I prefer to work alone. Ian is one of the few people whom I can work with on a serious level because we both come from the same style of production so it's not hard working with him.
Describe some fo the differences between your personal work and your work as "Attack People." What are some of the dynamics of your production with Lehman? Do you take turns producing or trade a track back and forth? Similarly, what is the dynamic in live performance - how do the two of you perform together/work off one another?
My personal work is a bit more in your face and energetic. I focus on rhythms, hooks, and other catchy stuff to carry the track. Ian's all about being scary with haunting pads and textures. His stuff is more linear and machine oriented, whereas my stuff is just rockin' party tracks. The idea behind "The Attack People" is to take the highlights of our styles and combine them together to make something different.
There are some things that Ian can pull off better than I can, and vice versa. It's just fun to sit down, choose a direction and see what happens. We've been striving to find the perfect formula for making tracks together and I think we've found it. Most of the time the track is on the mixing desk, we're both right there at the computer. One of us will kind of man everything and do our own thing while the other takes the back seat and adds suggestions and input here and there. After the idea is accomplished, we switch off and start the process over again. We keep doing that until we finish a track. Sometimes one of us will start a track that we just can't go anywhere with, so we'll make it an A.P. track and see if we can take it somewhere. It's never a one-man show, we're both there during the writing process from the beginning to the end. I think we're finally beginning to find the Attack People sound.
In the live setting we definitely work together. I've spent more time with Ableton so far, so I kinda make sure all the sequencing and settings are correct while Ian handles the mix down, some keyboard work, and now some vocals here and there (in true industrial fashion). Many times we'll rework stuff live or pull of some sort of trick that requires both of us to work together because we're operating different equipment so it's important that we have good communication when playing live.
When the name "Attack People" comes up in different forums and circles, people are excited. To many you were a "must see" at the Friction event during last year's Movement Festival. How does this make you feel, and what do you think makes you stand apart and receive appreciation/recognition?
I think it's incredible. We've come from absolute backwoods to getting respect all over the world. It's something we never expected and never intended. When Ian and I first came up with Abiotic, the idea was just to press up a couple hundred copies on vinyl and be local rave heroes. I started making electronic music out of boredom and because I couldn't find enough of it to listen to, so I had to make my own! We're proud that we've come this far.
One of the things that makes us stand apart is our overall attitude. In general, we just don't give a fuck and want to have a good time. I don't care if I ever do a record for Primate or some other big techno label, and neither does Ian. That's the problem with most upcoming artists these days, they forget to have fun. They put all their focus on putting a record out and that's it. We don't really care if we put out 1 or 10 records a year. Artists need to realize that your attitude, style, and outlook on things really do translate into your music.
Sometimes I feel like certain producers sit in their rooms churning out different versions of the same techno tracks in their own particular style. Do you ever feel like you're repeating yourself, and if so how would you deal with it?
I do and I get frustrated. I am always looking for new software or sample sources. Last year in the fall I went through like, a 7 month writers block. I can make the cookie cutter drum tracks with ease but that's not what I am here for. I just started using Ableton a little bit more for studio work to try and get some different software influence in my productions. I'm always trying new things to keep production interesting. When you fall into a formula it's real hard to enjoy making music.
Sometimes I sit down and come up with a beat and think, "How many times have I gone through this process?" and I end up scrapping a lot of tracks. Whenever you get a hot new producer everybody buys his first 6 or 7 records because they're bad ass and fresh. After that it all sounds the same. They're afraid to take other influences and incorporate it into their sound. I don't know if it's because of sales or laziness or what. Nowadays, I'm not interested in churning out a record a week. I'll put something out when I've got something to say. Sometimes I just include filler tracks because I think they're cool and still deserve to be heard. I'm a fan of the old school b-sides mentality.
What are some music/career goals you've accomplished? What are some goals that you're trying to accomplish?
I never had any musical goals. We started off as DJs/musicians looking for something to do on the weekend and now it's become so much more than that. I think that's an accomplishment. I don't have any other goals to be honest. If I had to quit tomorrow I'd be happy with how far I've come. I think the thing I am most proud of is that I taught myself everything I know about this industry. How to make tracks, how to master them, and how to sell them...that's pretty cool. Looking towards the future, I just hope I get the opportunity to bring some friends with me to some cool places to experience the world a bit more. That's it.
Talk a bit about Abiotic.....what's its mission, primary activity, etc?
It's simply just the flagship label for Ian and me. We haven't set any criteria or concepts for the label because that's the first step in putting limitations on what we could put out. I can tell you that after Abiotic003 the sound will change slightly. The clubbier stuff will be on my Enemy label and Abiotic will be reserved for the more forward-thinking productions. Abiotic is one of the few labels out there that really isn't here to put out some chart toppers. We're also not here to sell 20,000 copies either (I wouldn't be upset about it though). Now, it's not what my distributors want to hear but it's the truth. Here's the scenario we're trying to nail: You go out to a party and hear your friends or a DJ playing this crazy track that is just real obscure but it's one of the coolest things you've heard all night. You know you'll probably never find out what the track is so you enjoy it for all it's worth. And that's it, it's fucking gone and you can't get that moment back. I know that's why I am here. I love going out to the parties in the woods or wherever with my friends and having them play obscure tracks that you've never heard and will probably never hear again.
Online you've talked about how important it is for local techno promoters to work together. What are some of the accomplishments of collaboration that you've seen? Give an example of a scene or situation hurt by a lack of cooperation?
Well, some of the most recent collaborations I've seen are events Abiotic have been lucky enough to be a part of. The Substance party in Detroit was a project between the Detroit and NYC crews. It was a huge success and an extremely fun night. Those same guys just did the same for the Downwards US tour that we were a part of. I've been working with some promoters here in Minneapolis on a few small things and those have been huge successes as well. Those aforementioned parties were all done for the music and not for the money or spotlight, so they had a much better vibe. The U.S. in general is a perfect example of lack of cooperation. Fortunately it's starting to change...slowly.
If you want me to get technical about it, I think Chicago is probably the most divided city I've been to lately. There are a lot of politics, and egos there. Don't get me wrong, every time I go to Chicago I have a ton of fun and there are a lot of people there that are some of the coolest people I've ever met. But, just talking to various techno heads there, they always have beef with this guy or that guy. I've also never seen a city so divided on musical differences. Around here, we combine minimal, house, hard techno, all of that into one party. I see all those subgenres divided into different parties there. And not just parties either, but people actually have broken off friendships because of those small differences! From an outsider's view it seems like a lot of drama and little mention of family.
What is the purpose of continuing the techno tradition? What makes techno music still worthwhile, particularly in a live context?
I've said it frequently throughout this interview; it's all about enjoying yourself and having fun. If you can't do that then there isn't a purpose. There is a lot of cannon fodder coming out these days, but there are a few times a year when I hear a DJ play, sometimes an international guy or a close friend, who will simply blow my mind in a live setting with some crazy records or mixing skills I've never experienced. Being out at a party with your friends hearing great music, sharing great stories, and having a laugh is what still makes techno worthwhile. For me, and I know for many of my friends, it's about more than just a 5 minute cut on a record...it's about fully experiencing and appreciating what life has to offer in the little time we have a chance to experience it. You only get one chance at life, so let your guard down and enjoy it for all it's worth.
List 5 releases (techno or other, new or old, whatever) for listening.
All-time charts are the hardest questions to answer and my top 10's are all over the net, so I'll just list off what I have in my car at the moment:
The Hives - New Album
RJD2 - Since we Last Spoke
Go Hiyama - live pa
Wu Tang - 36 Chambers
Journey - Greatest Hits
interview by bijan for droid (october 22, 2004)
Philippe La PlastiQue - 28. Okt, 21:47
